| RUSH: How many of you are taking the time to watch the series on HBO called John Adams? It started Sunday night. There are seven episodes in total. They ran the first two. It's about John Adams, the first vice president of the United States, about his life, his wife Abigail, and their children. The first two episodes were really about the steps leading up to American independence and the convention in Philadelphia where the Declaration of Independence was written, primarily by Thomas Jefferson; where it was argued over, and hammered out. I hope you're watching it. If you're not, I hope that when they finish it and put it on DVD you get it, because this is the kind of stuff that is not being taught in schools today. I'm stunned at the number of people I have talked to who have watched this who didn't know any of this, and they're my age. What happened in that room, for all of those months, was a miracle. It was a miracle that it happened. Now, the reason I'm harping on this is because Norah O'Donnell is echoing one of the things that's part of the Obama campaign and is really something that the Democrats have been trying to bamboozle everybody with, and that is you can't solve problems unless you "unify." There was no way the Republicans were ever, ever going to be a majority in anything. I mean, they didn't have even half the number of seats in the House the Democrats had. Yet Reagan succeeded in reducing the top marginal tax rate from 90% to 28% over eight years. Now, do you think he did this unifying with the Democrats? Do you think he did this by virtue of unity with the Democrats in Congress? No! That is not how it happened. The Democrats didn't change their mind and all of a sudden think tax cuts were good, because if they had, we wouldn't be arguing about more tax cuts and we wouldn't be listening to Democrats continuing to talk about more tax increases. So they didn't change their mind about anything back in the eighties. They were just beaten, and the question is: how were they beaten? Well, they were beaten by virtue of the fact that Reagan won 49 states on the specific issue of tax cuts, rebuilding the military, and wiping out communism in the Soviet Union. He had the American people behind him, and the American people in this country get what they want. Now, you might want to say that Reagan united the people, but he did it on the basis of policy. He did it on the basis of his personality. He did it on the basis of his patriotism. He changed people's minds, but he didn't change the minds of Democrats in Congress. They had no choice. They had to go along, and not on everything did they. You remember the Iran-Contra situation and the Boland amendment and everything they could do in the second term to undermine Ronald Reagan. They hated those tax cuts being passed, and they did everything they could to do to undermine him after that. Yet they got it done. It wasn't with "unity." It was by perseverance, the idea triumphing in the minds of as many people as possible, leading a movement, teaching and explaining. Leadership. It's what's absent today in both sides of this in the presidential race. We have no leadership from Hillary. Obama's not a leader. McCain's not a leader. These are politicians seeking a promotion, pure and simple. We don't have leadership. And that's why everybody's filled with angst. It's just sad, but it's the way it is. So we get all this talk about unity, and we can't get anything done without unity, and who is it that's saying this? Liberal Democrats. |
Sunday, March 23, 2008
How John Adams Got His Unity
Friday, March 21, 2008
Why Morality Matters in Politics
| Why Morality Matters in Politics | |||||||||||||||||
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| March 11, 2008 |
Wednesday, February 20, 2008
What is Liberation Theology? Barack Obama
Question: "What is Liberation Theology?"
Answer: Simply put, Liberation Theology is an attempt to interpret Scripture through the plight of the poor. It is largely a humanistic doctrine. It started in South America in the turbulent 1950's when Marxism was making great gains among the poor because of its emphasis on the redistribution of wealth, allowing poor peasants to share in the wealth of the colonial elite and thus upgrade their economic status in life. As a theology, it has very strong Roman Catholic roots.
Liberation Theology was bolstered in 1968 at the Second Latin American Bishops Conference which met in Medellin, Colombia. The idea was to study the Bible and to fight for social justice in Christian (Catholic) communities. Since the only governmental model for the redistribution of the wealth in a South American country was a Marxist model (gained in the turbulent 1950's), the redistribution of wealth to raise the economic standards of the poor in South America took on a definite Marxist flavor. Since those who had money were very reluctant to part with it in any wealth redistribution model, the use of a populist (read poor) revolt was encouraged by those who worked most closely with the poor. As a result, the Liberation Theology model was mired in Marxist dogma and revolutionary causes.
As a result of its Marxist leanings, by the 1980's the Catholic hierarchy, from Pope John Paul on down, had criticized liberation theology as practiced by the bishops and priests of South America. As a result, they have been accused of supporting violent revolutions and outright Marxist class struggle by the top hierarchy of the Catholic Church. This perversion usually is the result of a humanist view of man being codified into Church Doctrine by zealous priests and bishops and explains why the Catholic top hierarchy now want to separate themselves from a Marxist doctrine and revolution.
However, Liberation Theology has moved from the poor peasants in South America to the poor blacks in America. We now have Black Liberation Theology being preached in the black community. It is the same Marxist, revolutionary, humanistic philosophy found in South American Liberation Theology and has no more claim for a scriptural basis than the South American model has. False doctrine is still false, no matter how it is dressed up or what fancy name is attached to it. In the same way that revolutionary fervor was stirred up in South America, Liberation Theology is now trying to stir up revolutionary fervor among Blacks in America. If the church in America recognizes the falseness of Black Liberation Theology as the Catholic Church did in the South American model, Black Liberation Theology will suffer the same fate that the South America Liberation Theology did, namely it will be seen to be the false doctrine of a humanist viewpoint dressed up in theological terms.
http://www.gotquestions.org/liberation-theology.html
Answer: Simply put, Liberation Theology is an attempt to interpret Scripture through the plight of the poor. It is largely a humanistic doctrine. It started in South America in the turbulent 1950's when Marxism was making great gains among the poor because of its emphasis on the redistribution of wealth, allowing poor peasants to share in the wealth of the colonial elite and thus upgrade their economic status in life. As a theology, it has very strong Roman Catholic roots.
Liberation Theology was bolstered in 1968 at the Second Latin American Bishops Conference which met in Medellin, Colombia. The idea was to study the Bible and to fight for social justice in Christian (Catholic) communities. Since the only governmental model for the redistribution of the wealth in a South American country was a Marxist model (gained in the turbulent 1950's), the redistribution of wealth to raise the economic standards of the poor in South America took on a definite Marxist flavor. Since those who had money were very reluctant to part with it in any wealth redistribution model, the use of a populist (read poor) revolt was encouraged by those who worked most closely with the poor. As a result, the Liberation Theology model was mired in Marxist dogma and revolutionary causes.
As a result of its Marxist leanings, by the 1980's the Catholic hierarchy, from Pope John Paul on down, had criticized liberation theology as practiced by the bishops and priests of South America. As a result, they have been accused of supporting violent revolutions and outright Marxist class struggle by the top hierarchy of the Catholic Church. This perversion usually is the result of a humanist view of man being codified into Church Doctrine by zealous priests and bishops and explains why the Catholic top hierarchy now want to separate themselves from a Marxist doctrine and revolution.
However, Liberation Theology has moved from the poor peasants in South America to the poor blacks in America. We now have Black Liberation Theology being preached in the black community. It is the same Marxist, revolutionary, humanistic philosophy found in South American Liberation Theology and has no more claim for a scriptural basis than the South American model has. False doctrine is still false, no matter how it is dressed up or what fancy name is attached to it. In the same way that revolutionary fervor was stirred up in South America, Liberation Theology is now trying to stir up revolutionary fervor among Blacks in America. If the church in America recognizes the falseness of Black Liberation Theology as the Catholic Church did in the South American model, Black Liberation Theology will suffer the same fate that the South America Liberation Theology did, namely it will be seen to be the false doctrine of a humanist viewpoint dressed up in theological terms.
http://www.gotquestions.org/liberation-theology.html
OTHER SOURCES...
An Investigation of Black Liberation Theology
http://www.hwhouse.com/aninvestigation.htm
Looking at Obama and black liberation theology
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/jon/080219
Thursday, February 14, 2008
The March to Communism
The March to Communism
February 13, 2008 - 14:20 ET
We are on a collision course with socialism/communism here in the United States. With McCain being the GOP nominee, Clinton or Obama will be the favorite in the general election. It’s not just a fear slogan to say ‘democrats are communist’ – just take a look at their own words AND policies and decide for yourself.
$1.5 trillion
Number of dollars over the years, state and local governments have promised, but not paid for in retiree health care and other non-pension post-employment benefits.
Feds up to their ears
The federal government is in no position to bail out these states and local governments because their unfunded future liabilities for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid as is widely reported is an estimated $50 TRILLION.
But even that isn’t the FULL story because that $50 TRILLION dollars only projects unfunded liabilities for the next 75 years—unless the government knows something we don’t—a lot of people are still going to be around after 75 years--if you project the unfunded liabilities for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid over the infinite horizon MEDICARE’S UNFUNDED liabilities shoot from $33.9 TRILLION to a present-value unfunded obligation of $74.3 TRILLION—and that’s just MEDICARE!
Democrats (and some R’s) Solution? Spend!
Spend more, lots more! Hillarycare Part II would cost and estimated $110 BILLION a year with Obama’s plan coming in at $60 BILLION annually.
2008 proposed federal budget allocations:
To get an idea just how much the 08 crop wants to spend, here’s what some existing programs already cost.
United States Secret Service 1.4 Billion
Customs and Border Protection 8.8 Billion
Immigration and Customs Enforcement 4.8 Billion
United States Coast Guard 7.3 Billion
The ENTIRE Department of Homeland Security proposed budget for 2008 comes in at $43 BILLION (less than either Hillary’s or Obama’s health care proposal).
Clinton’s other campaign promises:
$$
Spend $1 Billion For The Development Of Affordable Housing Through Housing Trust Funds. “In order to encourage the development of affordable housing, Sen. Clinton will establish a $1 billion fund to support state, county, and municipal housing trust funds
$
Sen. Clinton Has Introduced Legislation And Campaigned To Create A U.S. Public Service Academy, At A Cost Of Approximately $200 Million Annually; Multiplied By 4 Years = $800 Million.
$$$$
Sen. Clinton Has Proposed 401(k) For All Americans, Funded In Part By The Government At A Cost Of Up To $25 Billion Per Year, Multiplied By 4 Years = $100 Billion
$$$
Sen. Clinton’s Baby Bond Proposal would give $5,000 to each of the 4 million babies born in the U.S. each year, totaling $20 billion per year, multiplied by 4 years = $80 billion.
$$$$
Clinton wants to create a $50 billion "strategic energy fund" to develop new sources of fuel and has proposed paying for it by eliminating tax subsidies for oil companies. Edwards has outlined a similar program and would eliminate the oil company subsidies as well as establish a cap-and-trade system requiring companies to pay for emitting pollution.
Obama’s other promises
?
Credit Card Consumers’ Bill of Rights—“stop credit card companies from exploiting consumers with unfair practices…”
$
Credit Card 5 Star Rating System—similar to the Department of Homeland Security’s Color coded threat assessment rating system; Obama, if elected will implement a 5 star rating system for credit cards “which will assess the degree to which credit cards meet consumer-friendly standards…” Senator Obama previously introduced such a bill and put the price tag at $10 MILLION annually
$$$
Foreclosure Prevention Fund. In over your head; bought a home too big for your budget? No problem—Senator Obama is proposing a fund to “assist individuals who purchased homes that are simply too expensive for their income levels…”; estimated FIRST year cost? $10 BILLION.
$$$$
Proposal to create 5-E Youth Services Corps (the 5 “E”’s stand for energy, efficiency, environmental education, and employment) as well as a Green Job Corps to engage disconnected and disadvantaged youth in the all things Green.
$$
Supports requiring employers to give all employees 5 days of paid sick leave
$$$
Supports “encouraging the diversity in the ownership of broadcast media, promote the development of new media outlets for expression of diverse viewpoints, and clarify the public interest obligations of broadcasters who occupy the nation’s spectrum.” Can you say FAIRNESS DOCTRINE or perhaps public funding for Air America?
Totals
$286.999 BILLION
Projected annual spending for Obama’s proposals
$218 BILLION
Projected annual spending for Clinton’s proposals
$7 BILLION
Projected annual spending for McCain’s proposals
$54 BILLION
Projected annual spending for Huckabee’s proposals
$150 BILLION (in savings)
Projected savings after Ron Paul eliminates most of the Government.
What this spending does
1. Push us deeper and further into debt at a time when we absolutely can’t afford it;
2. Reflect a particular paternalistic approach to governing—a true NANY STATE
3. Each proposal increases the absolute RAW power of government
March into Socialism/Communism
Other socialist countries (even Russia in some ways) are decentralizing their form of national healthcare---Obama and Clinton seek to increase government’s role in our medical care and treatment decisions and options; worse yet they plan on burying us in debt in order to do it;
Socialist, communist and totalitarian regimes have always focused on harnessing the youth into national organizations. Within these organizations, ideological conformity can be imposed, future leaders can be groomed and political paybacks can be awarded to those who have donated generously in time or money to a particular candidate.
We had over 60 MILLION Americans volunteer their time last year—most likely without any government incentive for doing so. Do we really need the government sponsoring ideologically based charitable groups like Senator Clinton’s US Public Service Academy or Obama’s 5-E Youth Services Green Army?
Glenn sums it up this way:
‘If you go back and you read history from just before Wilson all the way through FDR, what they were trying to do with these Progressives, which Hillary Clinton claims she is, an early 20th century Progressive. Go back and read about these people. They are telling you who they are, and Americans just won't do the homework. They don't believe in local level. This is the opposite of what our founding fathers set up. These people, all believers in Marxism. They all believed that the Soviet Union would succeed and so what they did was they were looking for something to unite nationally and Mussolini -- you have to put this into perspective. Mussolini was not hated for much of his term. In fact, he was idealized by the left here in America. They thought fascism, before it became about extermination of entire people, they thought, this is a good thing; we could just get the Government to tell people what's good, what's right. That's why the Progressives in the early 20th century brought you prohibition! It wasn't good for you to drink. It wasn't good for society to have alcohol available. And if you didn't agree with them, you were either in on it with big alcohol or you were too stupid and you needed to be retrained. And so they were looking for things that would unite the country but not war and so FDR, one of the projects he started was the Conservation Corps to help the environment, to save our forests. Does any of this sound familiar? Does anybody think that maybe possibly that's the real story behind going green, the environmental movement that now cannot be dissevered from global warming? Starting projects, little armies of the youth! Put them into a mindset that is one with the government, one with the environment, one with the Earth.
Depressing Summary
We hope you think socialism/communism is neat---because we are going to be waist deep in it about 36 months from now!
Glenn Beck.com
February 13, 2008 - 14:20 ET
We are on a collision course with socialism/communism here in the United States. With McCain being the GOP nominee, Clinton or Obama will be the favorite in the general election. It’s not just a fear slogan to say ‘democrats are communist’ – just take a look at their own words AND policies and decide for yourself.
$1.5 trillion
Number of dollars over the years, state and local governments have promised, but not paid for in retiree health care and other non-pension post-employment benefits.
Feds up to their ears
The federal government is in no position to bail out these states and local governments because their unfunded future liabilities for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid as is widely reported is an estimated $50 TRILLION.
But even that isn’t the FULL story because that $50 TRILLION dollars only projects unfunded liabilities for the next 75 years—unless the government knows something we don’t—a lot of people are still going to be around after 75 years--if you project the unfunded liabilities for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid over the infinite horizon MEDICARE’S UNFUNDED liabilities shoot from $33.9 TRILLION to a present-value unfunded obligation of $74.3 TRILLION—and that’s just MEDICARE!
Democrats (and some R’s) Solution? Spend!
Spend more, lots more! Hillarycare Part II would cost and estimated $110 BILLION a year with Obama’s plan coming in at $60 BILLION annually.
2008 proposed federal budget allocations:
To get an idea just how much the 08 crop wants to spend, here’s what some existing programs already cost.
United States Secret Service 1.4 Billion
Customs and Border Protection 8.8 Billion
Immigration and Customs Enforcement 4.8 Billion
United States Coast Guard 7.3 Billion
The ENTIRE Department of Homeland Security proposed budget for 2008 comes in at $43 BILLION (less than either Hillary’s or Obama’s health care proposal).
Clinton’s other campaign promises:
$$
Spend $1 Billion For The Development Of Affordable Housing Through Housing Trust Funds. “In order to encourage the development of affordable housing, Sen. Clinton will establish a $1 billion fund to support state, county, and municipal housing trust funds
$
Sen. Clinton Has Introduced Legislation And Campaigned To Create A U.S. Public Service Academy, At A Cost Of Approximately $200 Million Annually; Multiplied By 4 Years = $800 Million.
$$$$
Sen. Clinton Has Proposed 401(k) For All Americans, Funded In Part By The Government At A Cost Of Up To $25 Billion Per Year, Multiplied By 4 Years = $100 Billion
$$$
Sen. Clinton’s Baby Bond Proposal would give $5,000 to each of the 4 million babies born in the U.S. each year, totaling $20 billion per year, multiplied by 4 years = $80 billion.
$$$$
Clinton wants to create a $50 billion "strategic energy fund" to develop new sources of fuel and has proposed paying for it by eliminating tax subsidies for oil companies. Edwards has outlined a similar program and would eliminate the oil company subsidies as well as establish a cap-and-trade system requiring companies to pay for emitting pollution.
Obama’s other promises
?
Credit Card Consumers’ Bill of Rights—“stop credit card companies from exploiting consumers with unfair practices…”
$
Credit Card 5 Star Rating System—similar to the Department of Homeland Security’s Color coded threat assessment rating system; Obama, if elected will implement a 5 star rating system for credit cards “which will assess the degree to which credit cards meet consumer-friendly standards…” Senator Obama previously introduced such a bill and put the price tag at $10 MILLION annually
$$$
Foreclosure Prevention Fund. In over your head; bought a home too big for your budget? No problem—Senator Obama is proposing a fund to “assist individuals who purchased homes that are simply too expensive for their income levels…”; estimated FIRST year cost? $10 BILLION.
$$$$
Proposal to create 5-E Youth Services Corps (the 5 “E”’s stand for energy, efficiency, environmental education, and employment) as well as a Green Job Corps to engage disconnected and disadvantaged youth in the all things Green.
$$
Supports requiring employers to give all employees 5 days of paid sick leave
$$$
Supports “encouraging the diversity in the ownership of broadcast media, promote the development of new media outlets for expression of diverse viewpoints, and clarify the public interest obligations of broadcasters who occupy the nation’s spectrum.” Can you say FAIRNESS DOCTRINE or perhaps public funding for Air America?
Totals
$286.999 BILLION
Projected annual spending for Obama’s proposals
$218 BILLION
Projected annual spending for Clinton’s proposals
$7 BILLION
Projected annual spending for McCain’s proposals
$54 BILLION
Projected annual spending for Huckabee’s proposals
$150 BILLION (in savings)
Projected savings after Ron Paul eliminates most of the Government.
What this spending does
1. Push us deeper and further into debt at a time when we absolutely can’t afford it;
2. Reflect a particular paternalistic approach to governing—a true NANY STATE
3. Each proposal increases the absolute RAW power of government
March into Socialism/Communism
Other socialist countries (even Russia in some ways) are decentralizing their form of national healthcare---Obama and Clinton seek to increase government’s role in our medical care and treatment decisions and options; worse yet they plan on burying us in debt in order to do it;
Socialist, communist and totalitarian regimes have always focused on harnessing the youth into national organizations. Within these organizations, ideological conformity can be imposed, future leaders can be groomed and political paybacks can be awarded to those who have donated generously in time or money to a particular candidate.
We had over 60 MILLION Americans volunteer their time last year—most likely without any government incentive for doing so. Do we really need the government sponsoring ideologically based charitable groups like Senator Clinton’s US Public Service Academy or Obama’s 5-E Youth Services Green Army?
Glenn sums it up this way:
‘If you go back and you read history from just before Wilson all the way through FDR, what they were trying to do with these Progressives, which Hillary Clinton claims she is, an early 20th century Progressive. Go back and read about these people. They are telling you who they are, and Americans just won't do the homework. They don't believe in local level. This is the opposite of what our founding fathers set up. These people, all believers in Marxism. They all believed that the Soviet Union would succeed and so what they did was they were looking for something to unite nationally and Mussolini -- you have to put this into perspective. Mussolini was not hated for much of his term. In fact, he was idealized by the left here in America. They thought fascism, before it became about extermination of entire people, they thought, this is a good thing; we could just get the Government to tell people what's good, what's right. That's why the Progressives in the early 20th century brought you prohibition! It wasn't good for you to drink. It wasn't good for society to have alcohol available. And if you didn't agree with them, you were either in on it with big alcohol or you were too stupid and you needed to be retrained. And so they were looking for things that would unite the country but not war and so FDR, one of the projects he started was the Conservation Corps to help the environment, to save our forests. Does any of this sound familiar? Does anybody think that maybe possibly that's the real story behind going green, the environmental movement that now cannot be dissevered from global warming? Starting projects, little armies of the youth! Put them into a mindset that is one with the government, one with the environment, one with the Earth.
Depressing Summary
We hope you think socialism/communism is neat---because we are going to be waist deep in it about 36 months from now!
Glenn Beck.com
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
MORALITY & ATHEISM
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/09-18-07.asp
Atheism cannot account for morality.
I did not accuse him of being immoral, but I did accuse him of borrowing his choice of moral living from the Christian worldview, the very worldview he denounces.
Like so many atheists, is an “interloper on God’s territory. Everything they use to construct his system has been stolen from God’s ‘construction site.’ The unbeliever is like the little girl who must climb on her father’s lap to slap his face. . . . [T]he unbeliever must use the world as it has been created by God to try to throw God off His throne
Incredibly, Harris seems to be oblivious to the fact that atheists—which he considers himself to be—have perpetrated far more evil and suffering in this world than hypocritical “Christians” ever have.
================================
Morality’s Reality
http://lifeanddoctrineatheism.blogspot.com/2007/02/moralitys-reality-atheists-generally.html
Atheists generally claim that morality is either derived form nature or is a human invention. This may be better stated as a human concept derived from nature through evolution. Deriving one’s morality from nature is a very dangerous thing to do. This natural morality would teach us that we are to fight our way to the top of the pack by tooth and nail (as some people do). We may even eliminate anyone who gets in our way. We would also murder other people and take what they have. Cannibalism and infanticide would be perfectly acceptable. Of course, cannibalism and infanticide is perfectly acceptable to some people.
Atheists besmirch Christianity for the dark episodes of its past, and rightly so. However, they must borrow Judeo-Christian morals in order to do so. Atheists generally believe that morals are completely situational, individually decided, or decided upon by a general consensus.
Some atheists argue that if morality is absolute why is it that all people do not follow the same morals. In fact, why is it even that not all Christians follow the same morals. These facts only prove that it is a personal free choice that determines whether people will follow the moral law. These facts do not prove that there is no moral law. It is illegal to drive through a red light (with the exception of emergency personnel) but people still run red lights. Does that mean that it is not illegal to run red lights? No, it merely means that people purposefully choose to break the law.
Moreover, does it really stand to reason that naturally occurring morals (or are they instincts?) would be to not steal, murder, lie, etc.? How would such actions give us an evolutionary edge? I could certainly succeed more in life if I simply stole whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, from whomever I wanted. I could lie to people in order to deceive them for my own personal gain. I could simply eliminate my competition—in procreation, in business, etc.
http://lifeanddoctrineatheism.blogspot.com/2007/02/moralitys-reality-atheists-generally.html
Succinct Statements On Atheism
There are various sects within atheism. Generally speaking, atheism is a faith based belief system that holds to the belief that God does not exist.
http://lifeanddoctrineatheism.blogspot.com/2007/02/succinct-statements-on-atheism-there.html
In philosophy, materialism is that form of physicalism which holds that the only thing that can truly be said to exist is matter; that fundamentally, all things are composed of material and all phenomena are the result of material interactions; that matter is the only substance. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
Atheism’s Faith Based
Dogmatic Beliefs
There is no authority higher than the individual; the individual is qualified to judge all things by his own wit.
There are no absolutes, except the absolute truth that there is no absolute truth, no God, no supernatural, etc., etc.
Morals are relative or situational, except that which the individual atheist has concocted as a moral standard (since atheism is amoral they must borrow moral concepts from theistic worldviews).
http://www.squidoo.com/atheismsuccinctly
===============================
Your code is just Judeo-Christianity without the God
Hey Atheists … Get Your Own Moral Code.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DougGiles/2007/05/26/hey_atheists_%E2%80%A6_get_your_own_moral_code
The problem I have, however, with the atheists and their goodness and their morality claims is that all your ethical codes of conduct sound strangely similar to the principles inherent to the Judeo-Christian traditions. As a matter of fact, it seems as if you have bellied up to the Bible and are treating it like a buffet . . . passing up on the worship of the person and work of God, while taking second helpings of His moral principles, you duplicitous, little, evolved monkey, you.
One of my old seminary profs used to say that although such muddled atheists would never verbally affirm the existence of God, they would live according to some ethical standard, some moral capital they have milked from us theists.
If I were an atheist and I believed that God didn’t exist, that the Bible was a bunch of weird bunk written by religiously deluded men several thousand years ago, that Jesus was an apocalyptic, sandal-wearing, hippie forerunner of David Koresh who went around spitting out cheeky clichés who needed not to be heeded, but straight-jacketed or at least ignored—I sure as heck wouldn’t be borrowing any tidbits of His wisdom to navigate my life’s glide path.
That’s what I appreciate about the atheist and philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900). Freddy is one of the few atheists who told his fellow atheistic buddies that they couldn’t have their cake and eat it, too. Nietzsche understood that we can either have God and meaningful morality, or we can have no God and thus, all life is meaningless and without any trace of hope . . . it officially sucks.
Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., speaks during a Capitol Hill news conference in this March 4, 2003, file photo. Secular groups applauded Rep. Pete Stark for publicly acknowledging he does not believe in a supreme being. The declaration, they said, makes the California Democrat the highest-ranking elected official _ and first congressman _ to publicly claim to be an atheist. The American Humanist Association took out an ad in the Washington Post on Tuesday, March 13, 2007, congratulating Stark's stance. (AP Photo/Terry Ashe, file)
Nietzsche came to the conclusion that if there is no God—or God is dead, as he put it—then he’s not going to live “as if” God is alive and His moral principles mattered. Yes,
claiming the title while schlepping to Judeo-Christian principles.brass-balled Friedrich said that the opposite of how the Bible says to live is the way we should live.
Once again, if I did not believe in God and I believed that the 10 commandments were BS and that faith, hope and love is for “the herd”, and that I came from nothing and I’m going to nothing and there is no ultimate eternal accountability for my actions—then I am sure not going to live like I did. Why do you do so, Mr. & Mrs. Atheist?
So what’s it going to be, my obstreperous amigos? Are you going to continue to blather on about there being no God and then live like there is one and that His word and will matters? Get consistent, why don’t ‘cha? Don’t live by the Ten Commandments. Don’t live by the Golden Rule. Don’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That’s our stuff. That’s the Judeo-Christian way. Get your own commandments that are logically deduced from the “no God” hypothesis, write your own unholy book and form your own civilization. Then let’s see how appealing it is, how it betters the planet and how far you’ll get.
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/06-18-07.asp
The Atheist Bible of Quotations
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/05-07-07.asp
The Atheist Debate
====================================
Founding Believers:
Examining the Faiths of the Founding Fathers
What were the religious beliefs of the founding fathers? Although it might appear to be an issue of only minor historical curiosity, that question is at the heart of many of the most contentious debates in the blogosphere. Countless arguments are centered on claims that the founders were either God-fearing Christians or Deistically-inclined secularists. But while historical documents are often mined for justifying quotes, few people bother to muster historical evidence to shore up their claims.
In his new book, The Faiths of the Founding Fathers, historian David Holmes fills that void by providing a useful methodology for examining the relevant evidence. Holmes outlines four areas that can help us laymen determine whether the founding father was a Deist, an orthodox Christian, or somewhere in between:
1. Examine the actions of the founding father in the area of religion (e.g., Did they attend church regularly?).
2. Examine the participation of the founding father in a church’s ordinances or sacraments (e.g., Did they have their children baptized? Did they take Holy Communion?).
3. Comparison of inactivity versus activity in regards to religious involvement.
4. Examine the religious language used by the founding father.
Using these criteria, Holmes claims that the religious beliefs of the founding fathers can be broadly classified as:
Non-Christian Deists: Deists who rejected all sacraments and rarely attended church services.
Deistic Christians/Unitarians: Held Deistic beliefs, attended church regularly, but rejected the Lord’s Supper and confirmation.
Orthodox Christians: Accepted orthodox Christian beliefs, attended church regularly, participated in the sacraments and ordinances.
Let us apply the four areas to the pre-eminent founding father, George Washington:
1. Although he was raised in the Anglican Church, Washington was never confirmed.
2. Washington appears to have consistently refused to take Holy Communion, the principle means by which, as Holmes notes, “Anglicans displayed a commitment to Jesus Christ.”
3. Washington was active in the Episcopal Church, serving as both a vestryman and churchwarden. He attended services with some regularity (about once a month).
4. Washington consistently used Deistic language in reference to God. Although he often used such terms as “the Deity” and “the Supreme Being”, in his correspondence he only uses the name “Jesus Christ” once (in a letter to an Indian tribe).
A careful examination of the evidence would lead to the conclusion that Washington was, using Holmes taxonomy, a “Deistic Christian.”
Applied to other founding fathers, the list could be roughly delineated as:
Non-Christian Deists: Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen
Deistic Christians/Unitarians: Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe
Orthodox Christians: Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams, John Jay, Elias Boudinot, John Witherspoon
With the exception of the handful of orthodox Christians, the majority of the founding fathers subscribed to a religious view that we would nowadays classify as Unitarianism. A rejection of Trinitarianism clearly puts one outside the bounds of orthodox Christianity. We should not, therefore, claim that a historical figure is a “Christian” when we would consider someone who held those beliefs today to be a heretic. The leaders during the revolutionary era may have subscribed to a Judeo-Christian view of morality, but few of them were orthodox believers.
While we Christians can claim few founding fathers as fellow believers, the atheistic secularist can claim none. Not one of the significant leaders was an atheist, much less subscribed to the modern idea of secularism. Most appear to have been held to the classic “five points of Deism”:
1. There is a God.
2. He ought to be worshiped.
3. Virtue is the principle element in this worship.
4. Humans should repent of their sins.
5. There is life after death, where the evil will be punished and the good rewarded.
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/003358.html
=====================================
My post, not used.
<>So, over 200 years ago some of the founders were deists and some were not.<>
And yes it makes a difference in how we understand what motivated, influenced and helped shape this country. As I said, atheists can not afford to give any credence to Christianity, it would not be good for their agenda. See post 307.
Ahhh Thomas Jefferson! The patron saint of secularists and atheists.
The anti-religion crowd act as if he "alone" authored the Constitution and no other delegate had any imput or influence in the makeing of the document.
Even Thomas Jefferson who was certainly not a trinitrainn, or a believing orthydox Christian beleived that man and the state were not to be the finial abortors for securing out rights . With the influence of Christian doctrine Jefferson posessed a Chirstian worldview that by passed fallen, flawed man/state, and appealed to a higher power for securing our rights. The belief in God helped give us all the Bill
==================================
The "religious right" certainly inspires a lot of repugnance, but I don't think it's their general religious views (of the kind you discuss above) that is the reason. Rather, it's the hostility they express through those views, and their insistence that everyone else has to live by their (rather extremist) beliefs, that angers people.
With such a confident and sweeping statement you no doubt have dozens of solid, convincing examples of how this is true... right?
The point most conservative Christians have regarding the founding fathers is that they all held a philosophy and worldview that was strongly, powerfully founded on and informed by Judeo-Christian theism, which is in great opposition to most modern thinkers.
========================================
Christian Reconstruction
http://forerunner.com/forerunner/X0496.html
Atheism cannot account for morality.
I did not accuse him of being immoral, but I did accuse him of borrowing his choice of moral living from the Christian worldview, the very worldview he denounces.
Like so many atheists, is an “interloper on God’s territory. Everything they use to construct his system has been stolen from God’s ‘construction site.’ The unbeliever is like the little girl who must climb on her father’s lap to slap his face. . . . [T]he unbeliever must use the world as it has been created by God to try to throw God off His throne
Incredibly, Harris seems to be oblivious to the fact that atheists—which he considers himself to be—have perpetrated far more evil and suffering in this world than hypocritical “Christians” ever have.
================================
Morality’s Reality
http://lifeanddoctrineatheism.blogspot.com/2007/02/moralitys-reality-atheists-generally.html
Atheists generally claim that morality is either derived form nature or is a human invention. This may be better stated as a human concept derived from nature through evolution. Deriving one’s morality from nature is a very dangerous thing to do. This natural morality would teach us that we are to fight our way to the top of the pack by tooth and nail (as some people do). We may even eliminate anyone who gets in our way. We would also murder other people and take what they have. Cannibalism and infanticide would be perfectly acceptable. Of course, cannibalism and infanticide is perfectly acceptable to some people.
Atheists besmirch Christianity for the dark episodes of its past, and rightly so. However, they must borrow Judeo-Christian morals in order to do so. Atheists generally believe that morals are completely situational, individually decided, or decided upon by a general consensus.
Some atheists argue that if morality is absolute why is it that all people do not follow the same morals. In fact, why is it even that not all Christians follow the same morals. These facts only prove that it is a personal free choice that determines whether people will follow the moral law. These facts do not prove that there is no moral law. It is illegal to drive through a red light (with the exception of emergency personnel) but people still run red lights. Does that mean that it is not illegal to run red lights? No, it merely means that people purposefully choose to break the law.
Moreover, does it really stand to reason that naturally occurring morals (or are they instincts?) would be to not steal, murder, lie, etc.? How would such actions give us an evolutionary edge? I could certainly succeed more in life if I simply stole whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, from whomever I wanted. I could lie to people in order to deceive them for my own personal gain. I could simply eliminate my competition—in procreation, in business, etc.
http://lifeanddoctrineatheism.blogspot.com/2007/02/moralitys-reality-atheists-generally.html
Succinct Statements On Atheism
There are various sects within atheism. Generally speaking, atheism is a faith based belief system that holds to the belief that God does not exist.
http://lifeanddoctrineatheism.blogspot.com/2007/02/succinct-statements-on-atheism-there.html
In philosophy, materialism is that form of physicalism which holds that the only thing that can truly be said to exist is matter; that fundamentally, all things are composed of material and all phenomena are the result of material interactions; that matter is the only substance. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism
Atheism’s Faith Based
Dogmatic Beliefs
There is no authority higher than the individual; the individual is qualified to judge all things by his own wit.
There are no absolutes, except the absolute truth that there is no absolute truth, no God, no supernatural, etc., etc.
Morals are relative or situational, except that which the individual atheist has concocted as a moral standard (since atheism is amoral they must borrow moral concepts from theistic worldviews).
http://www.squidoo.com/atheismsuccinctly
===============================
Your code is just Judeo-Christianity without the God
Hey Atheists … Get Your Own Moral Code.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DougGiles/2007/05/26/hey_atheists_%E2%80%A6_get_your_own_moral_code
The problem I have, however, with the atheists and their goodness and their morality claims is that all your ethical codes of conduct sound strangely similar to the principles inherent to the Judeo-Christian traditions. As a matter of fact, it seems as if you have bellied up to the Bible and are treating it like a buffet . . . passing up on the worship of the person and work of God, while taking second helpings of His moral principles, you duplicitous, little, evolved monkey, you.
One of my old seminary profs used to say that although such muddled atheists would never verbally affirm the existence of God, they would live according to some ethical standard, some moral capital they have milked from us theists.
If I were an atheist and I believed that God didn’t exist, that the Bible was a bunch of weird bunk written by religiously deluded men several thousand years ago, that Jesus was an apocalyptic, sandal-wearing, hippie forerunner of David Koresh who went around spitting out cheeky clichés who needed not to be heeded, but straight-jacketed or at least ignored—I sure as heck wouldn’t be borrowing any tidbits of His wisdom to navigate my life’s glide path.
That’s what I appreciate about the atheist and philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900). Freddy is one of the few atheists who told his fellow atheistic buddies that they couldn’t have their cake and eat it, too. Nietzsche understood that we can either have God and meaningful morality, or we can have no God and thus, all life is meaningless and without any trace of hope . . . it officially sucks.
Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., speaks during a Capitol Hill news conference in this March 4, 2003, file photo. Secular groups applauded Rep. Pete Stark for publicly acknowledging he does not believe in a supreme being. The declaration, they said, makes the California Democrat the highest-ranking elected official _ and first congressman _ to publicly claim to be an atheist. The American Humanist Association took out an ad in the Washington Post on Tuesday, March 13, 2007, congratulating Stark's stance. (AP Photo/Terry Ashe, file)
Nietzsche came to the conclusion that if there is no God—or God is dead, as he put it—then he’s not going to live “as if” God is alive and His moral principles mattered. Yes,
claiming the title while schlepping to Judeo-Christian principles.brass-balled Friedrich said that the opposite of how the Bible says to live is the way we should live.
Once again, if I did not believe in God and I believed that the 10 commandments were BS and that faith, hope and love is for “the herd”, and that I came from nothing and I’m going to nothing and there is no ultimate eternal accountability for my actions—then I am sure not going to live like I did. Why do you do so, Mr. & Mrs. Atheist?
So what’s it going to be, my obstreperous amigos? Are you going to continue to blather on about there being no God and then live like there is one and that His word and will matters? Get consistent, why don’t ‘cha? Don’t live by the Ten Commandments. Don’t live by the Golden Rule. Don’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That’s our stuff. That’s the Judeo-Christian way. Get your own commandments that are logically deduced from the “no God” hypothesis, write your own unholy book and form your own civilization. Then let’s see how appealing it is, how it betters the planet and how far you’ll get.
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/06-18-07.asp
The Atheist Bible of Quotations
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/05-07-07.asp
The Atheist Debate
====================================
Founding Believers:
Examining the Faiths of the Founding Fathers
What were the religious beliefs of the founding fathers? Although it might appear to be an issue of only minor historical curiosity, that question is at the heart of many of the most contentious debates in the blogosphere. Countless arguments are centered on claims that the founders were either God-fearing Christians or Deistically-inclined secularists. But while historical documents are often mined for justifying quotes, few people bother to muster historical evidence to shore up their claims.
In his new book, The Faiths of the Founding Fathers, historian David Holmes fills that void by providing a useful methodology for examining the relevant evidence. Holmes outlines four areas that can help us laymen determine whether the founding father was a Deist, an orthodox Christian, or somewhere in between:
1. Examine the actions of the founding father in the area of religion (e.g., Did they attend church regularly?).
2. Examine the participation of the founding father in a church’s ordinances or sacraments (e.g., Did they have their children baptized? Did they take Holy Communion?).
3. Comparison of inactivity versus activity in regards to religious involvement.
4. Examine the religious language used by the founding father.
Using these criteria, Holmes claims that the religious beliefs of the founding fathers can be broadly classified as:
Non-Christian Deists: Deists who rejected all sacraments and rarely attended church services.
Deistic Christians/Unitarians: Held Deistic beliefs, attended church regularly, but rejected the Lord’s Supper and confirmation.
Orthodox Christians: Accepted orthodox Christian beliefs, attended church regularly, participated in the sacraments and ordinances.
Let us apply the four areas to the pre-eminent founding father, George Washington:
1. Although he was raised in the Anglican Church, Washington was never confirmed.
2. Washington appears to have consistently refused to take Holy Communion, the principle means by which, as Holmes notes, “Anglicans displayed a commitment to Jesus Christ.”
3. Washington was active in the Episcopal Church, serving as both a vestryman and churchwarden. He attended services with some regularity (about once a month).
4. Washington consistently used Deistic language in reference to God. Although he often used such terms as “the Deity” and “the Supreme Being”, in his correspondence he only uses the name “Jesus Christ” once (in a letter to an Indian tribe).
A careful examination of the evidence would lead to the conclusion that Washington was, using Holmes taxonomy, a “Deistic Christian.”
Applied to other founding fathers, the list could be roughly delineated as:
Non-Christian Deists: Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen
Deistic Christians/Unitarians: Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe
Orthodox Christians: Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams, John Jay, Elias Boudinot, John Witherspoon
With the exception of the handful of orthodox Christians, the majority of the founding fathers subscribed to a religious view that we would nowadays classify as Unitarianism. A rejection of Trinitarianism clearly puts one outside the bounds of orthodox Christianity. We should not, therefore, claim that a historical figure is a “Christian” when we would consider someone who held those beliefs today to be a heretic. The leaders during the revolutionary era may have subscribed to a Judeo-Christian view of morality, but few of them were orthodox believers.
While we Christians can claim few founding fathers as fellow believers, the atheistic secularist can claim none. Not one of the significant leaders was an atheist, much less subscribed to the modern idea of secularism. Most appear to have been held to the classic “five points of Deism”:
1. There is a God.
2. He ought to be worshiped.
3. Virtue is the principle element in this worship.
4. Humans should repent of their sins.
5. There is life after death, where the evil will be punished and the good rewarded.
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/003358.html
=====================================
My post, not used.
<>So, over 200 years ago some of the founders were deists and some were not.<>
And yes it makes a difference in how we understand what motivated, influenced and helped shape this country. As I said, atheists can not afford to give any credence to Christianity, it would not be good for their agenda. See post 307.
Ahhh Thomas Jefferson! The patron saint of secularists and atheists.
The anti-religion crowd act as if he "alone" authored the Constitution and no other delegate had any imput or influence in the makeing of the document.
Even Thomas Jefferson who was certainly not a trinitrainn, or a believing orthydox Christian beleived that man and the state were not to be the finial abortors for securing out rights . With the influence of Christian doctrine Jefferson posessed a Chirstian worldview that by passed fallen, flawed man/state, and appealed to a higher power for securing our rights. The belief in God helped give us all the Bill
==================================
The "religious right" certainly inspires a lot of repugnance, but I don't think it's their general religious views (of the kind you discuss above) that is the reason. Rather, it's the hostility they express through those views, and their insistence that everyone else has to live by their (rather extremist) beliefs, that angers people.
With such a confident and sweeping statement you no doubt have dozens of solid, convincing examples of how this is true... right?
The point most conservative Christians have regarding the founding fathers is that they all held a philosophy and worldview that was strongly, powerfully founded on and informed by Judeo-Christian theism, which is in great opposition to most modern thinkers.
========================================
Christian Reconstruction
http://forerunner.com/forerunner/X0496.html
CHRISTIANITY'S REAL RECORD
Christianity's Real Record
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6657
http://aquinasdad.blogspot.com/
http://www.tektonics.org/qt/spaninq.html
What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion?
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atrocities.html
Darwin Won't Do
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/09-26-07.asp
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=127049
http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2007/06/infallibility-and-history-of-church.html
http://www.takimag.com/site/article/the_hollow_men_hitchens_dawkins_and_harris/
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/11/23/atheism-kills/
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/atheism_or_christianity.html
http://thinkers.net/talk/messages/9/15.html
http://steigerblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/evil-bloody-religion_20.html
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/331-history-of-neopaganism
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/mohammed_in_the.html
http://culturalapologetics.blogspot.com/2005/04/hotel-rwanda-relativism-moral-anarchy.html
http://www.preachersjourney.blogspot.com/
http://www.twoorthree.net/2006/11/atheist_atrocit.html
http://www.evangelicalresources.org/wicca.shtml#articles
http://str.typepad.com/weblog/apologetics/index.html
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/cdf/ff/chap01.html
How to Shut Up an Atheist if You Must
http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article370
http://www.christianciv.com/ChristCivEssay.htm
http://www.homeeducator.com/FamilyTimes/articles/11-3article7.htm
http://www.monticello.org/reports/quotes/memorial.html
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2005_06.html
http://www.tektonics.org/nutshell/nutshellhub.html
http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10/our-founders-were-they-christian.html
STATE CONSTITUTIONS
http://www.1776faith.com/constitutions.html
http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatch/stand_reason.htm
http://toulonbaptist.com/foundingfathers.htm
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5193
http://www.naacd.com/issues_founding_fathers.htm
http://www.usiap.org/Legacy/Quotes/ThomasJefferson.html
http://jcsm.org/AmericasFounders/
Whose belief system?
http://www.wnd.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34243
===========================================
The Constitutional Convention
It's not necessary to dig through the diaries, however, to determine which faith was the Founder's guiding light. There's an easier way to settle the issue.
The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. It refers to a specific group of men, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. There were other important players not in attendance, like Jefferson, whose thinking deeply influenced the shaping of our nation. These 55 Founding Fathers, though, made up the core.
The denominational affiliations of these men were a matter of public record. Among the delegates were 28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, 2 Methodists, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 unknown, and only 3 deists--Williamson, Wilson, and Franklin--this at a time when church membership entailed a sworn public confession of biblical faith.[1]
This is a revealing tally. It shows that the members of the Constitutional Convention, the most influential group of men shaping the political foundations of our nation, were almost all Christians, 51 of 55--a full 93%. Indeed, 70% were Calvinists (the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and the Dutch Reformed), considered by some to be the most extreme and dogmatic form of Christianity.
Who Were the Founding Fathers?
Historical proof-texts can be raised on both sides. Certainly there were godless men among the early leadership of our nation, though some of those cited as examples of Founding Fathers turn out to be insignificant players. For example, Thomas Paine and Ethan Allen may have been hostile to evangelical Christianity, but they were firebrands of the Revolution, not intellectual architects of the Constitution. Paine didn't arrive in this country until 1774 and only stayed a short time.
As for others--George Washington, Samuel Adams, James Madison, John Witherspoon, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, John Adams, Patrick Henry, and even Thomas Jefferson--their personal correspondence, biographies, and public statements are replete with quotations showing that these thinkers had political philosophies deeply influenced by Christianity.
Thomas Jefferson
Though deeply committed to a belief in natural rights, including the self-evident truth that all men are created equal, Jefferson was individualistic when it came to religion; he sifted through the New Testament to find the facts that pleased him.
Sometimes he sounded like a staunch churchman. The Declaration of Independence contains at least four references to God. In his Second Inaugural Address he asked for prayers to Israel's God on his behalf. Other times Jefferson seemed to go out of his way to be irreverent and disrespectful of organized Christianity, especially Calvinism.
It's clear that Thomas Jefferson was no evangelical, but neither was he an Enlightenment deist. He was more Unitarian than either deist or Christian.[3]
This analysis, though, misses the point. The most important factor regarding the faith of Thomas Jefferson--or any of our Founding Fathers--isn't whether or not he had a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. The debate over the religious heritage of this country is not about who is ultimately going to heaven, but rather about what the dominant convictions were that dictated the structure of this nation.
Even today there are legions of born-again Christians who have absolutely no skill at integrating their beliefs about Christ with the details of their daily life, especially their views of government. They may be "saved," but they are completely ineffectual as salt and light.
By contrast, some of the Fathers may not have been believers in the narrowest sense of the term, yet in the broader sense--the sense that influences culture--their thinking was thoroughly Christian. Unlike many evangelicals who live lives of practical atheism, these men had political ideals that were deeply informed by a robust Christian world view. They didn't always believe biblically, having a faith leading to salvation, but almost all thought biblically, resulting in a particular type of government.
Thomas Jefferson was this kind of man. In Defending the Declaration, legal historian Gary Amos observes, "Jefferson is a notable example of how a man can be influenced by biblical ideas and Christian principles even though he never confessed Jesus Christ as Lord in the evangelical sense.
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6657
http://aquinasdad.blogspot.com/
http://www.tektonics.org/qt/spaninq.html
What About Atrocities That Have Been Done in the Name of Religion?
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atrocities.html
Darwin Won't Do
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/09-26-07.asp
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=127049
http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2007/06/infallibility-and-history-of-church.html
http://www.takimag.com/site/article/the_hollow_men_hitchens_dawkins_and_harris/
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2006/11/23/atheism-kills/
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/atheism_or_christianity.html
http://thinkers.net/talk/messages/9/15.html
http://steigerblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/evil-bloody-religion_20.html
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/331-history-of-neopaganism
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/03/mohammed_in_the.html
http://culturalapologetics.blogspot.com/2005/04/hotel-rwanda-relativism-moral-anarchy.html
http://www.preachersjourney.blogspot.com/
http://www.twoorthree.net/2006/11/atheist_atrocit.html
http://www.evangelicalresources.org/wicca.shtml#articles
http://str.typepad.com/weblog/apologetics/index.html
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/cdf/ff/chap01.html
How to Shut Up an Atheist if You Must
http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article370
http://www.christianciv.com/ChristCivEssay.htm
http://www.homeeducator.com/FamilyTimes/articles/11-3article7.htm
http://www.monticello.org/reports/quotes/memorial.html
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/2005_06.html
http://www.tektonics.org/nutshell/nutshellhub.html
http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10/our-founders-were-they-christian.html
STATE CONSTITUTIONS
http://www.1776faith.com/constitutions.html
http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/dispatch/stand_reason.htm
http://toulonbaptist.com/foundingfathers.htm
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5193
http://www.naacd.com/issues_founding_fathers.htm
http://www.usiap.org/Legacy/Quotes/ThomasJefferson.html
http://jcsm.org/AmericasFounders/
Whose belief system?
http://www.wnd.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34243
===========================================
The Constitutional Convention
It's not necessary to dig through the diaries, however, to determine which faith was the Founder's guiding light. There's an easier way to settle the issue.
The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. It refers to a specific group of men, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. There were other important players not in attendance, like Jefferson, whose thinking deeply influenced the shaping of our nation. These 55 Founding Fathers, though, made up the core.
The denominational affiliations of these men were a matter of public record. Among the delegates were 28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, 2 Methodists, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 unknown, and only 3 deists--Williamson, Wilson, and Franklin--this at a time when church membership entailed a sworn public confession of biblical faith.[1]
This is a revealing tally. It shows that the members of the Constitutional Convention, the most influential group of men shaping the political foundations of our nation, were almost all Christians, 51 of 55--a full 93%. Indeed, 70% were Calvinists (the Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and the Dutch Reformed), considered by some to be the most extreme and dogmatic form of Christianity.
Who Were the Founding Fathers?
Historical proof-texts can be raised on both sides. Certainly there were godless men among the early leadership of our nation, though some of those cited as examples of Founding Fathers turn out to be insignificant players. For example, Thomas Paine and Ethan Allen may have been hostile to evangelical Christianity, but they were firebrands of the Revolution, not intellectual architects of the Constitution. Paine didn't arrive in this country until 1774 and only stayed a short time.
As for others--George Washington, Samuel Adams, James Madison, John Witherspoon, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, John Adams, Patrick Henry, and even Thomas Jefferson--their personal correspondence, biographies, and public statements are replete with quotations showing that these thinkers had political philosophies deeply influenced by Christianity.
Thomas Jefferson
Though deeply committed to a belief in natural rights, including the self-evident truth that all men are created equal, Jefferson was individualistic when it came to religion; he sifted through the New Testament to find the facts that pleased him.
Sometimes he sounded like a staunch churchman. The Declaration of Independence contains at least four references to God. In his Second Inaugural Address he asked for prayers to Israel's God on his behalf. Other times Jefferson seemed to go out of his way to be irreverent and disrespectful of organized Christianity, especially Calvinism.
It's clear that Thomas Jefferson was no evangelical, but neither was he an Enlightenment deist. He was more Unitarian than either deist or Christian.[3]
This analysis, though, misses the point. The most important factor regarding the faith of Thomas Jefferson--or any of our Founding Fathers--isn't whether or not he had a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. The debate over the religious heritage of this country is not about who is ultimately going to heaven, but rather about what the dominant convictions were that dictated the structure of this nation.
Even today there are legions of born-again Christians who have absolutely no skill at integrating their beliefs about Christ with the details of their daily life, especially their views of government. They may be "saved," but they are completely ineffectual as salt and light.
By contrast, some of the Fathers may not have been believers in the narrowest sense of the term, yet in the broader sense--the sense that influences culture--their thinking was thoroughly Christian. Unlike many evangelicals who live lives of practical atheism, these men had political ideals that were deeply informed by a robust Christian world view. They didn't always believe biblically, having a faith leading to salvation, but almost all thought biblically, resulting in a particular type of government.
Thomas Jefferson was this kind of man. In Defending the Declaration, legal historian Gary Amos observes, "Jefferson is a notable example of how a man can be influenced by biblical ideas and Christian principles even though he never confessed Jesus Christ as Lord in the evangelical sense.
Treaty of Tripoli
ENLIGHTENMENT LITE
Allen is correct that there were a number of Enlightenment principles floating around the colonies in the late eighteenth century as well as anti-clericalism. And there is no doubt that some of these principles made their way into the Constitution, although it’s hard to tell where when compared to the obvious Enlightenment principles inherent in the French Declaration of the Rights of Man (1789). But we should be reminded of Allen’s absolutist claim of a complete dissolution of religion from political considerations in the Constitution. She has set the evaluative standard. If she is correct, then why didn’t the framers presage the French revolutionaries by starting the national calendar with a new Year One? Why did the Constitutional framers set aside Sunday—the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue—as a day of rest for the President (Art. 1, sec. 7) if it was their desire to secularize the nation as Allen suggests? The French revolutionaries reconstructed the seven-day biblical week and turned it into a ten-day metric week in hopes of ridding the nation of every vestige of Christianity. Nothing like this was done in America.
STATE CONSTITUTIONS
Then there’s the issue of the state constitutions. One of the reasons some give for the absence of a more explicit declaration of God in the Constitution was the fact that the state constitutions made numerous references to God. The issue of religion was the domain of the states. Since the Federal Constitution was a document of enumerated powers, to mention religion in a more specific way would have given the national government jurisdiction over religious issues. The framers believed that such issues were best left to the states. Constitutional scholar and First Amendment specialist, Daniel Dreisbach, writes:
The U. S. Constitution’s lack of a Christian designation had little to do with a radical secular agenda. Indeed, it had little to do with religion at all. The Constitution was silent on the subject of God and religion because there was a consensus that, despite the framer’s personal beliefs, religion was a matter best left to the individual citizens and their respective state governments (and most states in the founding era retained some form of religious establishment). The Constitution, in short, can be fairly characterized as “godless” or secular only insofar as it deferred to the states on all matters regarding religion and devotion to God.3
Keep in mind that the national Constitution did not nullify the religious pronouncements of the state constitutions, and neither did it separate religion from civil government. The First Amendment is a direct prohibition on Congress, not the states, to stay out of religious issues: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This is a good indication that the states were to be unmolested on their religious requirements. As I’ve noted elsewhere,4 even today every state constitution makes reference to God. Here’s a sample of some of the state constitutions and their religious language during the time the Constitution was drafted:
If, as Allen maintains, “God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent,” how does she explain these state constitutional provisions? If the federal Constitution nullified these state constitutional mandates, then her point would be valid. The point is, God was a major player in the founding of America for more than 50 years before the Constitution was drafted.
http://www.1776faith.com/constitutions.html
NOT A MORAL TREATISE
The Constitutions says nothing about morality or values. There are no prohibitions against murder, theft, or rape. The word “law” is used numerous times, but it is never defined. The author of an 1838 tract entitled, An Inquiry into the Moral and religious Character of the American Government, makes an important observation: “The object of the Constitution [is to] distribute power, not favour; to frame a government, and not to forestall and clog the administration of it by words of preconceived partiality for this or that possible subject of its future action.”7 This is especially true when religion was an issue reserved to the states. States wrote educational provisions into their constitutions, while the Federal Constitution remained silent on the subject. The 1876 constitution of North Carolina includes 15 sections on education.
http://www.americanvision.org/bwarchive/4-05%20America's%20Founding.pdf
THE 1797 TREATY OF TRIPOLI
In an attempt to drive a stake in the belief that America had “been founded on Christian principles,” Allen resurrects the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli and its statement that “the Government of the United States . . . is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”8
The statement in question was to assure a radically religious (Muslim) government that America would not depose that government and impose Christianity by force. A single phrase ripped from its historical context does nothing to nullify the volumes of historical evidence that Christianity was foundational to the building and maintenance of this nation.
Muslim nations were hostile to “Christian nations.” The Barbary pirates habitually preyed on ships from “Christian nations,” enslaving “Christian” seamen.
The American consul in Algiers had to construct a treaty that would assure the ruler of Tripoli that troops would not be used to impose Christianity on a Muslim people.
Those who use the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli as a defense against the Christian America thesis are silent on the 1805 treaty. For example, Alan Dershowitz cites the 1797 Treaty as “the best contemporaneous evidence” against claims that the United States was founded as a Christian nation,5 but he makes no mention of the 1805 treaty and other treaties that are specifically Trinitarian.
THE TRINITARIAN TREATIES
If treaties are going to be used to establish the religious foundation of America, then it’s essential that we look at more than one treaty. In 1783, at the close of the war with Great Britain, a peace treaty was ratified that began with these words: “In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain. . . .”The treaty was signed by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and John Jay. Keep in mind that it was Adams who signed the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli.
In 1822, the United States, along with Great Britain and Ireland, ratified a “Convention for Indemnity Under Award of Emperor of Russia as to the True Construction of the First Article of the Treaty of December 24, 1814." It begins with the same words found in the Preamble to the 1783 treaty: “In the name of the Most Holy and Indivisible Trinity.” Only Christianity teaches a Trinitarian view of God. The 1848 Treaty with Mexico begins with “In the name of Almighty God.” The treaty also states that both countries are “under the protection of Almighty God, the author of peace. . . .”
If one line in the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli turns America into a secular State (which it does not), then how does Allen deal with the treaties of 1783, 1822, 1805, and 1848 and the state constitutions? She doesn’t, because she can’t. Allen needs to go back and do a bit more research and look at resources beyond the typical college professor’s bag of tricks and sleight of hand.
http://www.americanvision.org/bwarchive/4-05%20America's%20Founding.pdf
==================================
Treaty of Tripoli
The numerous documents surrounding the Barbary Powers Conflict confirm that historically it was always viewed as a conflict between Christian America and Muslim nations. Those documents completely disprove the notion that any founding President, especially Washington, ever declared that America was not a Christian nation or people. (Chapter 16 of Original Intent will provide numerous additional current examples of historical revisionism.)
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=125
Allen is correct that there were a number of Enlightenment principles floating around the colonies in the late eighteenth century as well as anti-clericalism. And there is no doubt that some of these principles made their way into the Constitution, although it’s hard to tell where when compared to the obvious Enlightenment principles inherent in the French Declaration of the Rights of Man (1789). But we should be reminded of Allen’s absolutist claim of a complete dissolution of religion from political considerations in the Constitution. She has set the evaluative standard. If she is correct, then why didn’t the framers presage the French revolutionaries by starting the national calendar with a new Year One? Why did the Constitutional framers set aside Sunday—the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue—as a day of rest for the President (Art. 1, sec. 7) if it was their desire to secularize the nation as Allen suggests? The French revolutionaries reconstructed the seven-day biblical week and turned it into a ten-day metric week in hopes of ridding the nation of every vestige of Christianity. Nothing like this was done in America.
STATE CONSTITUTIONS
Then there’s the issue of the state constitutions. One of the reasons some give for the absence of a more explicit declaration of God in the Constitution was the fact that the state constitutions made numerous references to God. The issue of religion was the domain of the states. Since the Federal Constitution was a document of enumerated powers, to mention religion in a more specific way would have given the national government jurisdiction over religious issues. The framers believed that such issues were best left to the states. Constitutional scholar and First Amendment specialist, Daniel Dreisbach, writes:
The U. S. Constitution’s lack of a Christian designation had little to do with a radical secular agenda. Indeed, it had little to do with religion at all. The Constitution was silent on the subject of God and religion because there was a consensus that, despite the framer’s personal beliefs, religion was a matter best left to the individual citizens and their respective state governments (and most states in the founding era retained some form of religious establishment). The Constitution, in short, can be fairly characterized as “godless” or secular only insofar as it deferred to the states on all matters regarding religion and devotion to God.3
Keep in mind that the national Constitution did not nullify the religious pronouncements of the state constitutions, and neither did it separate religion from civil government. The First Amendment is a direct prohibition on Congress, not the states, to stay out of religious issues: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This is a good indication that the states were to be unmolested on their religious requirements. As I’ve noted elsewhere,4 even today every state constitution makes reference to God. Here’s a sample of some of the state constitutions and their religious language during the time the Constitution was drafted:
If, as Allen maintains, “God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent,” how does she explain these state constitutional provisions? If the federal Constitution nullified these state constitutional mandates, then her point would be valid. The point is, God was a major player in the founding of America for more than 50 years before the Constitution was drafted.
http://www.1776faith.com/constitutions.html
NOT A MORAL TREATISE
The Constitutions says nothing about morality or values. There are no prohibitions against murder, theft, or rape. The word “law” is used numerous times, but it is never defined. The author of an 1838 tract entitled, An Inquiry into the Moral and religious Character of the American Government, makes an important observation: “The object of the Constitution [is to] distribute power, not favour; to frame a government, and not to forestall and clog the administration of it by words of preconceived partiality for this or that possible subject of its future action.”7 This is especially true when religion was an issue reserved to the states. States wrote educational provisions into their constitutions, while the Federal Constitution remained silent on the subject. The 1876 constitution of North Carolina includes 15 sections on education.
http://www.americanvision.org/bwarchive/4-05%20America's%20Founding.pdf
THE 1797 TREATY OF TRIPOLI
In an attempt to drive a stake in the belief that America had “been founded on Christian principles,” Allen resurrects the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli and its statement that “the Government of the United States . . . is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”8
The statement in question was to assure a radically religious (Muslim) government that America would not depose that government and impose Christianity by force. A single phrase ripped from its historical context does nothing to nullify the volumes of historical evidence that Christianity was foundational to the building and maintenance of this nation.
Muslim nations were hostile to “Christian nations.” The Barbary pirates habitually preyed on ships from “Christian nations,” enslaving “Christian” seamen.
The American consul in Algiers had to construct a treaty that would assure the ruler of Tripoli that troops would not be used to impose Christianity on a Muslim people.
Those who use the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli as a defense against the Christian America thesis are silent on the 1805 treaty. For example, Alan Dershowitz cites the 1797 Treaty as “the best contemporaneous evidence” against claims that the United States was founded as a Christian nation,5 but he makes no mention of the 1805 treaty and other treaties that are specifically Trinitarian.
THE TRINITARIAN TREATIES
If treaties are going to be used to establish the religious foundation of America, then it’s essential that we look at more than one treaty. In 1783, at the close of the war with Great Britain, a peace treaty was ratified that began with these words: “In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain. . . .”The treaty was signed by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and John Jay. Keep in mind that it was Adams who signed the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli.
In 1822, the United States, along with Great Britain and Ireland, ratified a “Convention for Indemnity Under Award of Emperor of Russia as to the True Construction of the First Article of the Treaty of December 24, 1814." It begins with the same words found in the Preamble to the 1783 treaty: “In the name of the Most Holy and Indivisible Trinity.” Only Christianity teaches a Trinitarian view of God. The 1848 Treaty with Mexico begins with “In the name of Almighty God.” The treaty also states that both countries are “under the protection of Almighty God, the author of peace. . . .”
If one line in the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli turns America into a secular State (which it does not), then how does Allen deal with the treaties of 1783, 1822, 1805, and 1848 and the state constitutions? She doesn’t, because she can’t. Allen needs to go back and do a bit more research and look at resources beyond the typical college professor’s bag of tricks and sleight of hand.
http://www.americanvision.org/bwarchive/4-05%20America's%20Founding.pdf
==================================
Treaty of Tripoli
The numerous documents surrounding the Barbary Powers Conflict confirm that historically it was always viewed as a conflict between Christian America and Muslim nations. Those documents completely disprove the notion that any founding President, especially Washington, ever declared that America was not a Christian nation or people. (Chapter 16 of Original Intent will provide numerous additional current examples of historical revisionism.)
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=125
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